CNG 4.0 ???

OK, so as much as we love the new smurf (2010 4.0 5speed w/ 12K miles), it is Danyal's daily driver from downtown Tulsa to Taft (112 miles/day 5 days/week) so gas is running about $75 week at 3.25 a gallon. CNG is running at .78 / 5.66 lb (equal to 1 gallon). It would save on average of >75% (or appx. $60/week)

$60 per week at 52 weeks is $3120 in savings per year. But here's the thing,the kit is about $2500 installed. so it would pay for itself the first year, however that's a full conversion, not a 50/50 gas/cng with 2 tanks. And we lose the trunk. This is because to have a large enough tank so shes not filing up DAILY we would replace the regular tank and do an auxiliary in the trunk.This would give about 400 miles on a fill up and about 3900lbs of fuel.

On the plus side it does make the engine run cleaner, so oil changes go to about every 7500 miles, but you lose horsepower and about 5% mileage. However again .78 vs 3.25 and rising again.

So I guess I'm looking for people with experience and knowledge to give an opinion here. Also, this started because my work just bought a 2011 E350 Van on straight CNG and were seeing an 80% savings in fuel costs over the other 2011 van, with the kit paying for its self at 35,000 miles.

Ok, anyone? I'm kinda serious about this, so please give opinions.

If you don't need the trunk space, I say go for it...

With Synthetic oils we are already changing oil every 7500 miles... still as clean as the day we put it in...

I guess I'd be curious how many places there are to fill up the CNG. That would be the deciding factor for me. There's a lot to be said for convenience. But then I'd also say if I was looking for max mileage for commuting I wouldn't have bought the mustang but rather a prius or similar. There might be ways to increase performance with the CNG that I'm not aware of in a tune. Would be interesting I suppose to find out.

That's the problem with alternative fuels right now: the infrastructure doesn't exist yet to make it convenient for people to refuel. As soon as more stations build that in, and the economies of scale catch up, then you'll see more CNG cars on the road.

That said, I personally don't think CNG is the direction alternative fuels are going. It is a finite resource after all. Granted, we have vast stores of natural gas within just the U.S. (I work for an energy company), but it will run out eventually. Car manufacturers are working more on electric cars these days, the main reason being that the "refueling" infrastructure is already there (plug in at the house). Just something to think about.

EDIT: I've had some people ask me (derisively) what the gas mileage is in my GT. I say "I didn't buy it for the gas mileage, I bought it because it's a cool, fun car. But if you must know, I get 18-20 mpg in the city and almost 25 on the highway."

I didn't think about the refueling habits. That was actually a deciding factor when my wife got her job in Tahlequah. We thought about parking the TSX or having me drive it and get her a CNG Civic (can get for about $8k).

But when we look around there weren't many places to get CNG fill-ups aside from the Natural Gas company (great that there is one in Owasso). You would really have to stay on top of your mileage, and I would be weary to ever let it go below 1/4 a tank.

The TSX already gets 400 mpt, so we decided it wouldn't be worth the payments since her car is already paid off...

07Shelby500 wrote:I guess I'd be curious how many places there are to fill up the CNG. That would be the deciding factor for me. There's a lot to be said for convenience. But then I'd also say if I was looking for max mileage for commuting I wouldn't have bought the mustang but rather a prius or similar. There might be ways to increase performance with the CNG that I'm not aware of in a tune. Would be interesting I suppose to find out.

We actually set out to get something better on gas, but my wife hates her job, and shes only 5 yrs from retiring. So we accepted that maybe if I get her a fun car to drive (it still gets 32mpg average) maybe she wouldn't hate the long drive so bad. And its worked so far, bitching is down about 50%.

We bought this because it was a hail damage repair and I got almost 6K off of price, plus great financing, and it only had 10K miles on her.

And the gas isn't killing us, I'm just a tight ass that's always looking to save a buck.

As far as refueling stations there's 3 within 10 miles of us, and one on her way to work off of HWY 75 and Union so that's not bad.

My real concern is that if more people start using it are they going to jack the price? Or will it stay cheap and be the wave of the future. I'll check on a tune for it. I don't think the horsepower would drop that much.

EDIT: I've had some people ask me (derisively) what the gas mileage is in my GT. I say "I didn't buy it for the gas mileage, I bought it because it's a cool, fun car. But if you must know, I get 18-20 mpg in the city and almost 25 on the highway." STFU



Same thing I tell ppl when they ask about her car and the long drive. But really a 32MPG car for under 15K with a 100K mile warranty, not many ppl would expect to find a mustang that meets that.

http://www.cnglocator.net/CNGLocationsbyState/OklahomaCNGStations.html

People as me how the gas mileage on the Shelby is and my response is: "Who cares?"

Those are most of the ones I knew about.............and a few i didn't.

Also is the "cool factor" of having a super effective Mustang on CNG. I think it would be fun to show off, people wouldn't expect it i don't believe.

MusicMan66 wrote:That's the problem with alternative fuels right now: the infrastructure doesn't exist yet to make it convenient for people to refuel. As soon as more stations build that in, and the economies of scale catch up, then you'll see more CNG cars on the road.

That said, I personally don't think CNG is the direction alternative fuels are going. It is a finite resource after all. Granted, we have vast stores of natural gas within just the U.S. (I work for an energy company), but it will run out eventually. Car manufacturers are working more on electric cars these days, the main reason being that the "refueling" infrastructure is already there (plug in at the house). Just something to think about.

And oil is not a finite resource?? Today we import more than 65% of oil necessary in this country; but we own enough domestic proven NG reserves to last over 100 years at current usage rates! Surely we humans can come up with a satisfactory fuel alternative within the next 100 years. (Such as hydrogen fuel cells - fill up with water!) It's not going to be electric vehicles, because no one talks about the emission price paid at the electric plant to generate the electricity to charge an electric vehicle. What fuel do you think your electric plant is burning to generate the electricity your electric-powered vehicle is using? Coal or NG! (With a very very few using hydro power - but none around here.) Why not cut out the middle man and just go with CNG-powered cars? Nor does anyone like discussing the end life of electric vehicles - specifically, the environmental cost of those enormous battery packs that must be disposed of eventually. CNG is by nature a cleaner burning fuel, with no end-of-life penalty to be paid.

Chances are you already have a natural gas line running right to your house aside your electric line, also - you can install a CNG compressor in your own garage to keep your vehicle's tank full. In addition, Chesapeake has recently committed more than $1 billion to a fund that will (among other CNG-related incentives) invest in establishing refueling stations throughout America - within 5 years you'll see CNG refueling stations at every major truck stop on every major highway in the U.S.; within 10 years they'll be as ubiquitous as gas pumps are now. Read www.pickensplan.com for much more info on what conversion to CNG as our primary fuel can mean for this country.

And Jimmy - if you convert your wife's Mustang to CNG, she will notice a loss in power; not because CNG is a less powerful fuel than gasoline (it's rated at 130+ octane), but because it requires more oxygen per unit of energy than gasoline does. You'll therefore be using it in an engine not designed around CNG, so you will notice a decrease in power. The fun will begin when the major auto manufacturers begin equipping sports cars with CNG-specific engines!

cng is actually a pretty good performance fuel. you can make some ponies with it. one of roushes drag cars is cng powered. dont have the specifics on it but its pretty damn fast.

not sure what you have to do to increase hp with it

http://www.anga.us/srdlanding

I am my company's representative to ANGA and one of our main missions is to promote useage of NG. One of the main focuses is to increase the number of filling stations in the US. We are not waiting to see if the car companies will build the cars first or the stations will become available. We are pushing the stations so the cars will be built. These people have a long term vision and are putting their money where there mouth is.

Metric7 wrote:And oil is not a finite resource?? Today we import more than 65% of oil necessary in this country; but we own enough domestic proven NG reserves to last over 100 years at current usage rates! Surely we humans can come up with a satisfactory fuel alternative within the next 100 years. (Such as hydrogen fuel cells - fill up with water!) It's not going to be electric vehicles, because no one talks about the emission price paid at the electric plant to generate the electricity to charge an electric vehicle. What fuel do you think your electric plant is burning to generate the electricity your electric-powered vehicle is using? Coal or NG! (With a very very few using hydro power - but none around here.) Why not cut out the middle man and just go with CNG-powered cars? Nor does anyone like discussing the end life of electric vehicles - specifically, the environmental cost of those enormous battery packs that must be disposed of eventually. CNG is by nature a cleaner burning fuel, with no end-of-life penalty to be paid.

I never said anything about oil. Clearly it is a finite resource. That goes without saying, which is why I didn't. My point was that while CNG is an excellent alternative to gasoline, (like you said) an alternative to CNG will have to be found down the road. Where's my damn flying car?

Good point about the end-of-life on the electric vehicles. That is clearly a problem, and could very well be prohibitive enough to kill the electric car -- again.

Chances are you already have a natural gas line running right to your house aside your electric line, also - you can install a CNG compressor in your own garage to keep your vehicle's tank full. In addition, Chesapeake has recently committed more than $1 billion to a fund that will (among other CNG-related incentives) invest in establishing refueling stations throughout America - within 5 years you'll see CNG refueling stations at every major truck stop on every major highway in the U.S.; within 10 years they'll be as ubiquitous as gas pumps are now. Read www.pickensplan.com for much more info on what conversion to CNG as our primary fuel can mean for this country.

I hope you're right, but I'll believe it when I see it. They've been talking about setting up CNG refuel stations for years. Setting up a CNG compressor at the house would be more convenient, and you would see the eventually demise of the gas stations. Good riddance too.

P.S. Chill out.

Problem with a compressor in your garage is that it would be a high pressure, low volume compressor. That means you would have to leave it running for hours on end to fill your car.

I apologize if my rant came off as personally directed at you, Steve - it wasn't. I just get excited when trumpeting the advantages of NG as an alternative fuel source! And Blair's right; a home-based NG compressor can only fill a car's tank at a rate of about 1/2 gallon per hour - but that's not much different from the time it takes to recharge an electric vehicle in one's garage.

so plug it into your neighbors house and use their electric and gas muahahahahaha

LOL Bob...

Metric7 wrote:I apologize if my rant came off as personally directed at you, Steve - it wasn't. I just get excited when trumpeting the advantages of NG as an alternative fuel source! And Blair's right; a home-based NG compressor can only fill a car's tank at a rate of about 1/2 gallon per hour - but that's not much different from the time it takes to recharge an electric vehicle in one's garage.

Good lord it would have to be plugged in all night. We fill up a 4500lb tank in our van in about 7 minutes, and it gets the rate of about 20 miles per dollar, as opposed to the gas van (same year) that gets about 6 miles per dollar.

We checked into getting a pump and compressor here at work, and going totally CNG on all cars but the cost was around 35K plus bi yearly inspections. It was outrageous.

I'm still digging the idea, talked to a guy in Shawnee earlier that did a conversion on a 68 Mustang with an early 90's 5.0 motor in it. He is supposed to send me pics later and come look at her car to see what he can do.

Metric7 wrote:I apologize if my rant came off as personally directed at you, Steve - it wasn't. I just get excited when trumpeting the advantages of NG as an alternative fuel source! And Blair's right; a home-based NG compressor can only fill a car's tank at a rate of about 1/2 gallon per hour - but that's not much different from the time it takes to recharge an electric vehicle in one's garage.

It's all good David. It's clear that the gasoline engine will fade into the sunset in our lifetimes, and it will be interesting to see what alternative wins out. CNG seems to have more pros than cons, though.

MusicMan66 wrote:It's clear that the gasoline engine will fade into the sunset in our lifetimes, and it will be interesting to see what alternative wins out. CNG seems to have more pros than cons, though.

"Red Barchetta" comes to mine...

BMMC1 wrote:

MusicMan66 wrote:It's clear that the gasoline engine will fade into the sunset in our lifetimes, and it will be interesting to see what alternative wins out. CNG seems to have more pros than cons, though.

"Red Barchetta" comes to mind...

Yep -- that's what I was thinking also.