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Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

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Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by KevinGT on 9/8/2009, 11:19 pm

Just got a call from the paint and body guy. While driving my mustang to the exhaust shop he threw a rod and scrapped the bottom end of my supercharged mustang. He stated that he was going to make it right and maybe I am a sucker but I believe him. Here is what he said to the best of my recollection. I am in shock but here goes.

While driving at 3500 RPM the engine through a rod. Engine builder stated that all 7 of the pistons were "stretched". My engine was a stock 4.6 with the HO Whipple installed by Grand Prairie Ford. It had the default Ford Racing tune and was all done to their spec.

In conclusion my painter said that they are rebuilding the engine now with the best engine builder in the state. I believe he said his name was mike Hinson or something close to that. He also stated that a fellow name Yancey but who knows. He mentioned that he was replacing the bottom end with a a brand new super snake bottom end and that I would have eagle rods and eagle something else. I don't know what to think. I am just sick.
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Metric7 on 9/8/2009, 11:29 pm

Oh wow, Kevin!! Sad news, man! Very sorry to hear about this. I think you get to decide who and where your engine gets rebuilt, though - not the guy who blew it. While driving at 3,500 RPM. (Sorry, but that part just doesn't pass the sniff test.)
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by KevinGT on 9/8/2009, 11:34 pm

This sounds like the guy that is rebuilding it

http://www.hensonracingengines.com/
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by BMMC1 on 9/9/2009, 12:27 am

Wow Kevin! That sucks!

Here's my take. For what it's worth....

1) You should pick who rebuilds it. Period. If it's a good and company they should have insurance. I do...
2) Sounds like he was f-ning around if you ask me, but hard to prove unless you download the computer/black box and see what happened.
3) Call this so called engine builder and talk to him, if you can, pay him a visit, check out his shop and ask for references. Also get a build sheet for the motor that clearly states what parts were used. It's like building a house... You can't see if they're really using premium grade lumber once the drywall is up.
4) Everyone engine builder is the best in the state... just ask them.
5) I'm not sue happy, but contacting a lawyer and having him waiting in the wings might be a good move.
6) Most import... Document, Document, Document everything. Every conversation whether it's on the phone or face to face. If you can, get it in writing.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Guest on 9/9/2009, 12:51 am

OMG that sucks. I dont understand how these motors are poping I beat the living hell out of mine. I would say you should have your motor built by someone you trust not who they trust my god you cant trust them to drive it might want to look at making it a 5.0 since everything including the block is gone. I have heard of Henson you will be all right if the good stuff is put in. I really dont under stand the super snake comment its a 5.4 call me if you need any info

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by carcrazy53 on 9/9/2009, 8:51 am

Here's my take.You lucky sob.He could have said come and get your car it through a rod.Take me to court and prove i mistreated the car you have modified.Since this motor is tough,it may have laid down on you.It's all good and you will be happy with the henson motor.My 07 gt has a stock 4.6 with 18k miles.I'd be more than happy to make a swap for the henson motor.I think it is good that he picked the builder.If something does go wrong it's still on him.If you pick someone and it goes south it gives him the out, Hey it's who you wanted.Just remember how lucky you are to have this kind of problem,many people sleeping under bridges would love to have your kinda trouble.
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by 07Shelby500 on 9/9/2009, 9:00 am

IMO if he's offering to fix it then he knows he was responsible for the breakage. Which to me means that he wasn't just cruising along at 3500 revs. He was hammering the ever loving shit out of it and it blew.

I also agree with Greg about the SS comment? WTF? It's a 5.4??? Maybe he means the same tye of materials would be used in the rebuild??

Keep us informed.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Guest on 9/9/2009, 10:36 am

isn't this the same guy you thought was driving your mustang while it was there the last time?

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Leonard 95 on 9/9/2009, 10:44 am

Revit wrote:isn't this the same guy you thought was driving your mustang while it was there the last time?

I think we have a winar! I would for sure talk to who is building it and see what the hell is going on. If I where you I would pick one of those aluminator motors out of ford catalog and say eat shit this is what I want.
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by KevinGT on 9/9/2009, 11:17 am

Update, the engine is being rebuilt as we speak. I just spoke to the builder and he is using brand new Eagle parts which include Eagle rotating assemblies, Eagle H beam rods, Arias Pistons and a romeo block. He also mentioned that he dumped the 6 bolt flywheel and will be using the eagle 8 bolt flywheel instead. I am heading to the engine builders show after lunch so I will let you know.
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by 03.sonicblue on 9/9/2009, 11:33 am

carcrazy53 wrote:Here's my take.You lucky sob.He could have said come and get your car it through a rod.Take me to court and prove i mistreated the car you have modified.Since this motor is tough,it may have laid down on you.It's all good and you will be happy with the henson motor.My 07 gt has a stock 4.6 with 18k miles.I'd be more than happy to make a swap for the henson motor.I think it is good that he picked the builder.If something does go wrong it's still on him.If you pick someone and it goes south it gives him the out, Hey it's who you wanted.Just remember how lucky you are to have this kind of problem,many people sleeping under bridges would love to have your kinda trouble.

Speaking of motors, What ever happened to yours Tony? Alright, back on topic.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by 03.sonicblue on 9/9/2009, 11:37 am

KevinGT wrote:Update, the engine is being rebuilt as we speak. I just spoke to the builder and he is using brand new Eagle parts which include Eagle rotating assemblies, Eagle H beam rods, Arias Pistons and a romeo block. He also mentioned that he dumped the 6 bolt flywheel and will be using the eagle 8 bolt flywheel instead. I am heading to the engine builders show after lunch so I will let you know.

Sounds like a good deal. Either someone really f'ed up or your dealing with a really classy body shop. Good customer service just doesnt come around everyday. Glad to hear it is going well.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by KevinGT on 9/9/2009, 12:19 pm

So I called Eagle rods and they pulled up what the engine builder ordered for the my Mustang. The rep at Eagle said that the kit is brand new and that would be good up to 500 hp. I asked him what was the weak link and he said without a doubt the crank shaft which is not Forged 4340 steel. The price difference would be about 500 hundred bucks to upgrade now.

I know this was a turn of bad luck but should I not bite the bullet now and just upgrade that one piece? It appears that 500 is the limit with what I have now and 1200 HP would be the limit with the new crank. Once I completed the supporting parts like suspension and brakes I could up the boost without worry? Am I taking the correct approach on this?
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Guest on 9/9/2009, 12:22 pm

KevinGT wrote:Update, the engine is being rebuilt as we speak. I just spoke to the builder and he is using brand new Eagle parts which include Eagle rotating assemblies, Eagle H beam rods, Arias Pistons and a romeo block. He also mentioned that he dumped the 6 bolt flywheel and will be using the eagle 8 bolt flywheel instead. I am heading to the engine builders show after lunch so I will let you know.


Wow sucks to hear Kevin....But it looks as though hes putting in a Forged Rotating assymbly?? Holy Crap what a sweet deal!!!

So he hot rods your car and blows the stock GT bottom end to smithereens. Then is a stand up guy and pays to replace the internals with FORGED INTERALS...if this is true...WOW thats awesome.

Very stand up guy indeed. Free Forged bottem end...thats gotta feel good.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Leonard 95 on 9/9/2009, 12:29 pm

I wouldn't worry about the crank that much, you got good rods that is usually the weak point.
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by 87pony on 9/9/2009, 12:39 pm

$500 bucks for that much assurance from the company itself? man that is a no brainer to me.
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Dein on 9/10/2009, 10:58 am

Man... I need to have that guy blow up my engine!!!

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by BMMC1 on 9/10/2009, 11:09 am

I say go for it.... Look at it this way. Really on the guy was on the hook for was to bring it back to stock. So... basically you're getting one hellava motor for $500.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by KevinGT on 9/10/2009, 11:18 am

Good Point, I had read a lot about getting a safe tune and not over doing it on a stock engine. I never researched what I could do with upgraded internals since I never planned to tear this engine apart. I keep hearing these guys say 500 HP will not be no problem but I wonder what my new limit is? I understand that there are a host of supporting upgrades that would need to happen before uping the boost but now that the engine will be upgraded what is the new safe level number.
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by 03.sonicblue on 9/10/2009, 11:20 am

Black08_427R wrote:Man... I need to have that guy blow up my engine!!!

We still have bets on you blowing up yours, don't let us down.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Guest on 9/10/2009, 11:52 am

KevinGT wrote:Good Point, I had read a lot about getting a safe tune and not over doing it on a stock engine. I never researched what I could do with upgraded internals since I never planned to tear this engine apart. I keep hearing these guys say 500 HP will not be no problem but I wonder what my new limit is? I understand that there are a host of supporting upgrades that would need to happen before uping the boost but now that the engine will be upgraded what is the new safe level number.

Kevin...discuss the limits with the engine builder. He should warranty the work he did...and let you know what is "Safe"

With those forged internals...I can tell you this ....that motor will handle well north of 500 RWHP :) More like 600 RWHP

Dont quote me on that though :) Check with the builder.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by BMMC1 on 9/10/2009, 12:18 pm

The bottom is definitely the weak point for these motors. Like Jerbear suggested 600hp should be very doable and safe.

HOWEVER! The issue won't be what the motor can take... It will be what the rest of the driveline can handle. Beefing up things like the clutch, input shaft and the rearend now becomes the priority.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Guest on 9/10/2009, 12:23 pm

And the TUNE! Most important will be the TUNE!!

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by rford426 on 9/10/2009, 12:28 pm

your getting hooked up
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by BMMC1 on 9/10/2009, 1:59 pm

And windshield wiper fluid!

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by 03.sonicblue on 9/10/2009, 3:20 pm

Don't forget to check the muffler bearings too. very weak link as well.

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by usafimj on 9/10/2009, 3:39 pm

Are you going to get a new tune. If so who's going to do it? Is Mike Henson the one doing your motor. If you have time next time you see him. Can you ask him how much it usually costs to put a new rotating assembly with block work. Thanks

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by KevinGT on 9/14/2009, 1:53 pm

Mike Henson on Henson Racing is doing the Engine. I am still trying to decide on who should do this tune. I am learning more about Engines than I ever cared to. :) One thing that has come up is compression vs. Boost. The feedback I heard was that 10:1 compression is what killed Eleanor. The compression is going to be lowered to 8.5 so who knows.

I found this interesting and wanted to get your feedback on the comments.


You DO NOT need to have forged internals to have a supercharger!.
Anyone who has blown up an engine after installing a supercharger with
less than 14 psi has done it because of one or both of only two
reasons; 1) a tune that runs too lean or that disables or desenitises
the knock sensors, or 2) excessive RPMs.

Consider all the cars with cast or hypereutectic cast pistons with
boost levels from 9-15 psi. Ford Lightnings have cast pistons and they
run 15-20 psi just fine. There were over 250,000 Buick Grand Nationals
sold with cast pistons. Kenne Bell states that 99% of their sales are
for cars with cast pistons. If all these cars run blowing their engines
the they would not be in business.

One point of failure are the pistons. Pistons fail because of
detonation and it doesn't matter whether the car is supercharged,
turboed or naturally aspirated. Aluminum begins to soften at 1700
degrees and it doesn't matter whether they are cast or forged. The
forged will hold out a bit longer but basically the same. If the knock
sensors are working as designed they will retard engine spark and
eliminated detonation. But superchargers can make noise that can be
mistaken by knock sensors as knocking so tuners who are not as good as
others eliminated them or desensitize them, eliminating their ability
to protect your engine.

The other point of failure are the rods. There is a LOT of talk on this
board about how the rods are the weak point in the S197 drive train.
But I challenge anyone to show me a photo a of a rod that failed in
compression at boost of 14 psi or less. There are none because the rods
do not fail in compression, i.e. the power
of the supercharger bending them. They fail in tension, i.e. high RPMs
pulling them apart. The inertial loading (tension) of a rod increases by the square of the engine RPM. That means if you increase the RPMs from 6000 to 6600 you've increase the load on the rods by 40%. If you want more power, don't increase the RPM, increase the psi and keep the RPM below 6000.
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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by BMMC1 on 9/14/2009, 2:10 pm

Interesting and makes perfect sense. One point is keeping it under 6000 rpms... I know most us us run to 6500 or more under race conditions, so forged internals are the way to go.

These motors love to rev. Normally aspirated 3v-ers start showing a power drop off after 6000 - 6100 rpms. So going must past that is not really worth it. Forced induction is a different story.

Most stock internals will handle the power and stress of high boost conditions if eveything runs right. HOWEVER, when timing or a knock sensor goes south chances are so will the engine. The forged internals provide you with insurance.

Be interested to get Gregs take....

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Re: Help Guys THE ENGINE HAS BLOWN

Post by Guest on 9/14/2009, 4:24 pm

How do you have 10:1 Compression? We should have 9.8:1 if I remember correctly and that in no way is the reason the rod let go.

Yes its true...superchargers love low compression, BUT non have failed due to compression at 9.8:1. Dont let anyone feed that to you.

Your motor failed from one of the 2 reasons mentioned above.

1) Tune was allowing for detonation and BOOM
2) Excessive RPMs (This is my guess I would bet money on it)

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